Dr. Mahnia Madan is the Vice President of the BC Doctors of Optometry, a Fellow of the American Academy of Optometry, and she is blazing a new path in the world of dry eye treatment.
In this episode of The 20/20 Podcast, Dr. Madan shares how she had to create her own path, the value she sees in contributing to the profession, and how she balanced it all with her family.
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Creating Your Path With Dr. Mahnia Madan
Thank you again for taking the time to join me here to learn and to grow. Before we get started, don't forget to make sure you hit subscribe, like, and leave a review. Do all of those amazing things that help support the show. As always, I have a wonderful guest and am super excited to introduce to you. Her name is Dr. Mahnia Madan. She is the Vice President for the BC Doctors of Optometry, our provincial optometry association here in British Columbia. She is a fellow of the American Academy of Optometry. She has lectured and continues to lecture all across North America. She also practices in OD MD practice and in a busy private practice here in the Vancouver area. Dr. Madan, thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Thank you for having me. I’m super excited to be here.
Honestly, there's a lot of amazing things that you've been doing that I'm super excited to share with our audience. I didn't mention it for some reason in this little intro, but the subtitle of the title is Entrepreneurship, Business Life. It’s combining all these different things. Not just speaking about optometry specifically, but it's great that you had this rounded personality and profession and everything. You have so many different things that you can contribute here. The first thing I want to talk about is your position with the BC Doctors of Optometry. Congratulations on your re-election as Vice President.
Creating Your Path: We're not advancing in a linear fashion. There can be ups and downs in life.
Thank you so much.
It's so important to share the journey through this within the organization and what it means to the profession to be involved. If you could tell us a little bit about how long you've been involved and what that process has been like.
I've been involved with BC Doctors of Optometry for over three years. First, as a Board Member and got elected to be Vice President. It's such a neat position to be in. It opens up your eyes to the needs of the optometrist across the province. I've had the opportunity to not meet people just in BC, the various doctors and people on the board, but also across Canada. It's been fascinating to see how optometrists practice throughout Canada.
What are their challenges in the regions that they're in and what things they're facing versus what we're facing here? It’s bringing all of that knowledge together, collaborating, and always wanting to move the profession forward. It’s always advocating. There's so much behind the scene work that goes in these organizations. Until you are in that organization and see it, you don't even realize how many wheels are turning to make sure that we can practice the way we want to practice here.
That's such a great point to make. Often, we get busy in our day-to-day lives and practicing the way we practice. We forget that the profession didn't just show up out of nowhere and didn't stay here or grow by itself. It's growing because of the efforts of a lot of people and the advocacy and things like that that come through our professional organizations like the BCDO.
We’re like that. We find a profession and we want to leave it better for our children and the future. That’s what people did in the past for us. It's important to be involved instead of complaining.
I'd like to be a little bit blunt about this. First of all, we have to always remember that we stand on the shoulders of the people who come before us and the foundation that they've built for us. Be grateful and aware of that, so you're not like, “No, I did this for myself.” Where we are now is because of the people who came before us. That’s number one.
Number two, if you're going to complain about something, there's also the opportunity to do something about it. I want to say that because there are a lot of times people, and there are patients who complain, but people in all sorts of different professions who will complain about the fact that the profession is not meeting their needs or expectations. If that is the case, it's worth stepping out there doing what you've done and being in these leadership positions to make the change you'd like to see.
We've got a great board as well, so I'm excited. It's going to be positive. Things are going to be moving in a good direction.
I’m excited about the board that's been elected. If we don't mind, let's give each of them a quick shout-out. Dr. Shiv Sharma, Dr. Lili Liang, and Dr. Petar Prpic.
Those were the new electees and we've got our President, Dr. Errin Bligh, and past President Dr. John Lam on there. Dr. Brittany Rollett is in the interior and a young mom putting her time in contributing. It's wonderful.
Since you mentioned that, that was going to be a question later on, but I want to jump into that right now. You mentioned the mom thing. Many practicing optometrists and professional women are moms or want to have families. You, yourself, are a mother of three. I'd like to ask you, and it’s open-ended here, how have you found the balance and how did you approach this starting a family being a professional?
I feel like my 30s were a blur with trying to have three kids. After being in school, we moved back from the United States, working and setting up practices here, helping perhaps my husband set up his practice and building a home. There was a lot going on with having children. As women, maybe we even have our own internal battles going on. I went to school. I've got student loans. I want to be working, but here I am nursing and raising babies. Now that I am past my 40s, I found it’s okay to do that and step away from my career and take some time to raise my kids.
I heard a quote from Oprah one time and she said, “You can have everything but not all at the same time.” You want to try to have things that necessarily can't come back. We can't go back to our children's childhood, but I feel fortunate that I'm in a profession like optometry where I can take a pause and come back to it. It's still going to be here. It's still going to support me, and I'm still going to support it.
I feel like even though in the last few years, perhaps I took a break, and I wasn't so active because my kids were so young, I don't feel like I missed a beat. Whereas I felt like that when I was taking a break, I would sometimes beat myself over it like, “I started this job. I don't want to be taking time off. I want to be advancing in my career.” You can have it all, perhaps space it up and it's okay to do that.
That's a great quote and a great message. Leave it to Oprah to share these pearls of wisdom. You've answered a little bit already in that first part of the discussion. What advice would you have then for women who are in that position, maybe they are students, new grads, or whatever it might be where they're trying to understand how they might approach that?
One thing, for sure, you've got to figure out the profession and career you want. What do you want to get out of your professional life and your career life? It's okay that it doesn't have to happen right away. We've got to have patience and you might have children that you might want to take care of. You might have sick family members or maybe your parents that you might be taking care of.
Whatever the reason is, as long as you have passion. It doesn't usually go in a straight line. We're not advancing in a linear fashion and there can be ups and downs in life and that's what it is. Be clear on what you want out of life and your profession. You're going to be spending so many hours in it. Have that clear vision and they think things will fall into place when it's the right time.
I often like to highlight the fact that it's almost never a straight line. As much as we'd like to picture coming out of school, “This is my path.” It's almost never. I would imagine that it’s almost never going to be that way. There are always going to be twists and turns, so it’s being open to that. Understanding that you can have everything you want, maybe not all at the same time, and prioritizing those things.
Coming from my male perspective, I apologize. Optometry is a profession that at least gives quite a bit of flexibility in that versus maybe some others that are less flexible. Since we're on the topic, I've been fortunate to have many amazing women on the show who are professionals, successful in whatever areas they're in. I don't want to ignore the fact that there have likely been some additional challenges for these women to get to where they are based on gender inequality, bias, and things like that. If there are any experiences you've had that you'd be comfortable sharing, you don't have to, but more importantly, I'd like to know, from your perspective, do you feel like we are heading in the right direction? What do you think we need to see a bit more of that in our profession or across the board?
From my experience, I've been pretty blessed. I have a supportive husband that said, “It's your career. You tell me how to support you.” People I've worked with in the United States, the practices, and here have all supported the choices that I wanted to make. More than anything, it was probably my own internal battles. Maybe they come from what is expected of us and what society puts on us, even though people around me didn't enforce those expectations on me.
At some level, as a woman, you feel the mom guilt and the work guilt. You feel all these guilts. Perhaps we are putting it on ourselves, to maybe we have to start to change our own mindset and feel better and comfortable with the choices we're making and that things will be fine. No, I don't have a specific experience to share, so I feel blessed that it's been positive.
Not that there has to be one, but it's helpful when each person who comes on if they share their own story, someone out there will resonate with a piece of your story that maybe they didn't resonate with somebody else's. That's perfectly fine. I like to make these little segues where I can. You talked about the choices and the decisions that you made. We'll go back into your professional career now. You chose to do a residency. I'd love to hear a bit about your residency. What did you practice? Was doing a residency, in your opinion, the right choice for you? Would you recommend that to someone else?
My journey was a little bit different. I graduated from Pacific University, College of Optometry, a couple of years ago. I worked in Minnesota at a beautiful private practice. It was a multi-location private practice. They’re a wonderful group of doctors. I know that I probably would have had the opportunity to buy in at some point if I wanted to. It was one of those great high-end practices that I could see myself working in.
A couple of years into practicing, I realized that it's one of those questions that you have to ask yourself, “Am I happy? Is this how I want my career to go?” Anybody would have been happy. It was a great practice, but I felt like I was missing something, so I wanted to go back to school and do a residency. After three years of practice is when I applied for a residency.
It was in ocular disease. Being a Canadian, it's a huge step. If you're living in the States, you've got all this visa stuff to go through to be able to even get a residency. You're competing with all these wonderful new grads that are coming out. Not to mention, I was newly married, living comfortably and my husband was still going to school.
When I didn't match in Minnesota, I matched in Texas. That was another layer of, “Am I going to do this? Should I back out of it?” I decided that this is my career. I want it on my own terms. If I wanted to go to school and learn a little bit more about what my passion is, I want to do it. It was the most wonderful experience. We packed our bags and moved to Texas. You get to live in another great place.
My residency was at a large practice in Texas. It was a referral center for other eye care professionals who refer their patients for eye care. I got to work alongside four wonderful ophthalmologists trained in glaucoma, retina, cornea, and refractive surgery, be on call every other weekend, see 30, 40 patients, and be involved in the patient's care from start to end. You see newly diagnosed glaucoma to end-stage glaucoma, infections, cancer, everything in between. It’s a wonderful experience that is compact with learning that would take years to learn and see in private practice. All these years later, I still feel like that was probably one of the amazing experiences of my life and investment in myself.
It's amazing to know you had such a profound experience. To do it three years after already having graduated is a whole other story. Most people are thinking about doing it right after school. I'm going to take it that you would generally recommend new grads go into residency. Would I be correct about that?
Yes. It's such a phenomenal experience. No matter what you're interested in, if it's myopia control, ocular disease, contact lenses, do it. It's another year and you're going to make great connections and come up with a great experience. Even if it is a year or two later, it could still happen. You can do it.
That's a perfect example of the fact that just because it's not the usual time or whatever the time that most people do, doesn't mean you can't do it if that's what you want to do. Clearly, it was well worth it. After the residency, did you stay in the US for a while or did you come back to Canada?
I stayed in Minnesota. We moved back to Minnesota and I worked at a large optometry-ophthalmology practice which is an integrated care model. I feel like there's a huge benefit in that care. I was working there for a few years before we moved back to Canada. That was a huge change. When I came back to Canada in 2013 or so, BC was just getting therapeutics or perhaps therapeutics to treat dry eyes and glaucoma right at that time. Coming from a state like Minnesota where you had the rights to even treat chalazion with injections and doing orals to coming back to the start of therapeutics was an interesting time to come back to BC.
I was grateful that the profession of optometry was advancing here and that was opening up, so that was wonderful. When I came back here, and with my experience in the States from the residency, I wanted to work with an ophthalmology group. I wanted to practice to the fullest scope possible of my optometric license. I felt this is working so well in the States, and I was happy there, and perhaps I can try that here. It was difficult. At that time, there weren’t any practices that were working with an optometrist in a fully integrated fashion.
I remember cold calling ophthalmologists, picking up the phone, and saying, “I'm an optometrist. I was trained in the US and I've done a residency. Here's my experience and resume. Do you think we can get together for a coffee and perhaps we can see if this would be a good fit?” There was a lot of pushback. Some of the ophthalmologists had a lot of questions. They're surprised that somebody would pick up the phone and call. That was interesting. Some of them said, “This is going to work, but good luck. See you around.” I finally found a group with Dr. Kevin Wade that we got chatting about it. He and I saw the potential in that, so we started working together back in 2014.
I didn't realize it had been that long.
It's been such a great experience. I remember when I first started working there, he said to me, “Mahnia, you wanted to work with an ophthalmology practice. You're here. Now what? What are we going to do? What kind of career do you want? What is your profession going to be like? What are we going to do here? What is it that you want?” That was a cool question that he asked me because we talked about how I could do pre- and post-op care.
He said, “I don't need you for that. We're going to do something bigger. That's the whole point of this. It's not this pre- and post-op care that you're talking about. What is that going to be?” That’s when I learned that what I want out of this profession is mutual respect for each other. I want us to learn from each other. I want us to both push our professions forward and provide this integrated care where we provide good quality patient care where he depends on things that I can do and I can depend on him for things that he can do. We all win in that situation.
A lot of credit to Dr. Wade for being that open. That's amazing on his part to be that open to that discussion with you and not like, “Here's the pre- and post-op.” That's the way in BC. Any OD reading in the US is not sure. Maybe not understanding the fact that here in BC, this OD and MD situation working together is rare.
In the cases where they do have that most often would think of them as more as pre and post, the few odds and ends at the MD maybe won't do. Not in a demeaning manner. I'm not trying to say that, but it's often the way it's set up, but for Dr. Wade to be like, “You do all of this and I'll take care of this,” that's pretty cool.
Creating Your Path: At some level, as a woman, you feel the mom guilt and the work guilt. We have to start to change our own mindset and feel better and comfortable with the choices we're making.
I said to him, “I do want to practice to the fullest of my scope.” He said, “You're not going to do that by doing pre- and post-op care. Let's figure this out. How can we move this forward? What is our goal here?” We've always had that in mind that we want to be at the forefront of that and maybe lead the way in that.
We're going to touch on something that you are leading the way, but I wanted to also give you the credit for doing the cold calling. This is something that I have stressed in various areas of my career. When I first started practicing, I took the non-traditional route of doing the same thing, cold calling optometrists and saying, “I like your practice and your setup. Can I potentially work there?” Having those conversations are uncomfortable conversations to have with people who are not expecting you to call them out of the blue. When I started my eyewear branding, I was doing the same thing. I was cold calling anybody I could think of that it might be relevant to. A lot of them were not expecting the phone call or that type of phone call. You’ve got to be willing to have that conversation. It’s cool that you did that.
It's amazing that you did that, too. There's so much learning out of that, but you're putting yourself in a tough spot. A lot of it is rejection, but when it's not, it's good.
You find opportunities that somebody else wouldn't find right through the traditional channels. You practice in a private practice as well as a big busy practice. We can touch on that a little bit, but since we're already talking about Dr. Wade's clinic and you having set this relationship up and trying to be at the forefront of things, you are doing a lot of dry eye treatment. That's your specialty. Within that, you're doing something that is much cutting edge, which is the PRP. We'll work our way down this. First of all, how did you decide that dry eye was your passion? How did you work on building that within Dr. Wade's existing practice?
It's always been a thing that I've always enjoyed treating. Dry eye is an optometry disease. It's something that we can manage fully. It is something that optometrists can take control of and be at their thing. It's something I've always enjoyed. In the last few years, as the practice was shaping, the dry eye area started to grow, Dr. Wade was seeing the benefits of me seeing those patients. From the patient's perspective as well, things were changing. That’s where we decided, “Maybe this is something we need to look into and make it a formal program.”
I decided to do a lot of staff training at the clinic to change the mindset because in Canada, especially in BC in an ophthalmology practice, we're in socialized medicine. There isn't a fee for service. There isn't,
“You've got to pay for something like this.” There's nothing wrong with paying for things. It's a mindset. It's not something that the patients and expecting, and not ophthalmologists are sometimes comfortable talking about because that's not part of the education. There was a lot of education that went along with that. I remember one of the simple challenges were things like, sometimes I hear one of the ophthalmologists say, “You could do lid scrubs with baby shampoo.” I have to knock on the door and be like, "No."
You’re barging into the exam and you’re like, “No.”
We've come to a point that the whole clinic sees the benefit of a dry eye program where patients are benefiting and the ophthalmologists see it. It's been wonderful.
Tell us the thing that you've posted about a lot on social media that’s got my attention and it's gotten a lot of key people's attention. For example, I don't know if you read the episode or not, but I had Dr. Richard Maharaj on. He's the dry eye Jedi. That's his specialty. That's what he focuses on day-in and day-out. He and I were chatting on that episode about the up-and-coming cool things that are happening and they're happening in Canada. Your name came up and your use of PRP. For the uninitiated in this topic, please tell us whaPRP is, how you make it, and how it has been beneficial.
PRP is Platelet-Rich Plasma. In simple words, it's your concentrated platelets that are within our blood. Our blood has many components and we concentrate the platelets and it's called platelet-rich plasma. The reason we concentrate the platelets is that platelets are the powerhouses for healing. A lot of studies show that they carry alpha granules and many other bioavailable molecules within our platelets.
In fact, 1,600 bioavailable molecules are within our platelets that come to a site of injury and rescue it. They are involved in wound healing, healing the tissue quickly. They're involved in reducing the osmolarity, which, in dry eye disease, our osmolarity is high. They can correct the osmolarity. They provide anti-inflammatory cytokines to help heal the tissue in the area. They also provide anti-analgesic effects to reduce the pain. There's some evidence that there is nerve regeneration that happens with our own platelets.
It's been fascinating working with platelet-rich plasma. The thought came from my husband. He's a periodontist. Dentists work with platelets. In fact, so many areas of medicine work with platelets. There's so much evidence in orthopedic care, dermatology and hair restoration where platelets are injected to the site of injury to help increase healing in that area. That’s where the idea came. We brought that into our clinic a couple of years ago and we've used it on so many patients. There's also a need for patients wanting to use more natural options.
PRP contains nothing else but your own blood and platelets, so there are no drugs, preservatives, and additives in it. We're all conscious of what we're putting inside our bodies now. Whether it's the food we eat or medication that we take, we want to try avoiding and doing as many natural things as possible. In that, it makes that part of the practice. Also, we've seen such phenomenal results with platelet-rich plasma. Patients use it four times a day, so we do the blood draw in the clinic, centrifuge the blood, concentrate the platelets, and put them in bottles for them to use as eye drops.
To me, it's mind-blowing that you've developed this whole protocol within the office yourself. Who does the process of centrifuging, bottling, and that type of thing?
I've got a medical technologist that comes in and does that. A couple of years ago, we did a bunch of research, looked at studies, optimal platelet concentration, different blood draws, and how much platelets are in people's blood. You need a certain volume when you need to have drops that have to last four months.
You need to be able to draw a certain amount of blood and get certain platelets out of it. You need to have a certain amount of volume. It can't be too thick. It's got to come out of the bottle. Also, retaining the bioavailability of these platelets so they're not degraded over time. A lot of studies or experimentation went into developing the method to make sure that we are getting good viable platelets.
Is it using a little dropper or is it coming out of a regular dropper?
Do you know those vitamin amber glass bottles with a dropper?
Yes.
Platelets stick to plate to plastic, so they have to be stored in a glass bottle. The amber color protects them from oxidation.
How do you prevent that from oxidation or other types of degradation over time? Does it have to be refrigerated? You said it's not preserved.
It's not preserved. It does have to be refrigerated between use and the bottles that are not being used need to be frozen.
Where would somebody need to look if they wanted to learn more about this? Should they reach out to you? Are there other resources that we could send them?
One of the other things I want to do is I want to make this accessible for other optometrists and for other patients. I've always reached out to other optometrists in this and said that this doesn't need to be any more complicated than writing a prescription for RESTASIS, Xiidra or any other eyedrop. You can simply write a prescription for PRP eye drops and we have it set up at our clinic where patients can come and fill that prescription. They don't need to see me. You are the managing doctor. You're managing their dry eye disease, and this is another tool in your toolbox. Should you want to use it for your patients, it's there.
That's a great resource to offer to people. Something you touched on and something I wanted to ask you about related to these types of dry treatments, whether it's IPL, radiofrequency, or PRP, there's a cost associated with it. The cost is one thing that tends to be a bit of an obstacle not just for the patient but for the doctor, even to have these treatments available to offer them to patients. How would you encourage an optometrist to approach this and how do you go about it? Is there any mentality or approach to this that you have that helps you look past that?
There's another quote that I love, “People don't buy what you sell. They buy what you believe in.” They often buy what you believe in, so you've got to believe. You've got to practice science-based medicine, so it's got to have some backing to it before we can prescribe it to our patients. When we do, we want to make sure that I would do something for myself or my mom and I would prescribe for my mom. I've got to get to that comfort level because people aren't buying what you're selling. They're buying what you're believing. If this is something that you believe in. If you've got compassion for it and the science behind it, that helps.
That's important. It's a great way to approach it. Let's touch on this. You do also work in private practice. I'd love to hear if you were able to list 2 or 3 pros and cons of each, the OD MD setting versus the private practice. If somebody is considering this or trying to figure out which path may be more appropriate for them, how would you separate those two? What are the pros and cons of each?
Every mode of practice has its pros and cons. I love working at the OMD practice. I get to practice full scope, for sure. There are so many things that come easy, whether it's ordering lab work or being involved in care for a chronic disease with another doctor. All of those things are easier or more speedy. It’s unfortunate that I say that because that should be easier in an optometry practice too, but perhaps, we're not there yet. Hopefully, we can bridge that gap and get there. It is heavy work.
You're constantly seeing sick patients, patients with real visual impairment. It can be condensed, fast, heavy days. I love working in a private practice as well, where I get to see families and you get to grow old with them, and you get to see their children. I love seeing patients that are my age who are young professionals and providing care for them and advocating for preventing eye diseases in the future. Whether it is to say, “We've got to start early on your dry eye stuff,” or whatever it is that they're going through.
That’s fascinating as well. I love that balance of having both of those practices in there. There was a time where I felt like I wanted to be a business owner. That was when you came out of school and you've got these loans and whatnot. I thought, “If I can't do it my way, I don't know if I'll be happy.” I'm happy to report years later that I'm happy with my mode of practice.
I’m happy to hear that and that. If I can throw in my two cents here, many of us have this feeling, “I need to be a business owner to be successful, feel accomplished, or whatever.” Years later, for me, I can tell you that it’s not necessary. Does your husband own his own practice?
He does.
You've seen it. You've been involved in that, so you understand. Business ownership comes with its challenges. There are many challenges. There are many days where I'm like, “If I could practice optometry and help my patients and not have to also think about this other thing, life would probably feel a little bit more fulfilled.” There are pros and cons to both. Some people want some of that some people don’t. It's good to hear that you feel fulfilled and accomplished for a good reason in the settings that you're working in.
You're right. Being a practice owner, that's amazing too. I can't imagine the amount of doors that open for them and the connections that that draws in. In the end, you have to ask, “What kind of profession I want? That's an important question before we dive into and clock in our hours. You’ve got to decide what we want at the end of the day. I want to be able to look back and say, “Was I happy with that? Was that a good choice for me?”
It’s that old rocking chair test. You think about yourself as an 80-year-old or 90-year-old person sitting in a rocking chair.
What else is amazing is that that can change in a decade too. What I wanted years ago was so different from what I want now. That's self-evaluation from time to time. It's okay if we change the type of practice we want. Maybe in ten years, I'll be a practice owner.
Creating Your Path: We cannot control luck. The only thing we can control is hard work, so we’ve got to do what we can do on our part and hope for the best.
It’s not because you pick one path now, it doesn't have to be your path. If you've grown and changed, reevaluate. Thank you so much for all those amazing insights. I have a few Rapid-fire questions for you as we lead into wrapping up the show. We're going to do these. These are supposed to be short answers. One word to one sentence kind of thing. Whatever comes to mind. I want this to be quick, but the question itself might be a little bit long. The first question, if there was a dry eye war, like if you watched the Avengers, there's somebody coming from out of the planet and they're waging a dry eye war on us, what would be the one weapon you would choose to fight this dry eye villain?
IPL.
You’re going to Intense Pulse Light him into submission.
I feel like it's going to be cool.
It probably wouldn't be too. It's the brightest flash versus a lid scrub or something. It would be a lot harder to kill him. What is the biggest lesson you've learned through COVID?
What I learned is the growth that we can have when we're in such a different time. As an example, I started Instagramming, which I never did before. I never even thought about it, but with everything closed and not having the opportunity to connect with your peers and conferences, I felt that social media would be an avenue. It's amazing, different times and how they make us grow. When I think of COVID, I think of growth.
I'm glad that you think of that. Hopefully, many others do as well. There are easy negative takeaways, but if there's a positive like that, that's great. Who was the most influential person early in your professional career?
My husband.
What's the best professional advice you have ever received?
Reevaluate and align your goals with what you want out of your professional life.
I'll throw this last one in. Tell us a little bit about your kids.
I've got three kids.
The two final questions. If you've read a previous episode, you might have read this. There are two questions I'd like to ask every guest at the end of each episode. They’re self-reflective questions. The first one is if we could hop in a time machine and go back to a point in your life that was maybe a difficult time, what advice would you share with yourself? You could share that moment if you'd like, but more importantly, what advice would you share with yourself?
Some of the difficult times are often when we're conflicted within ourselves. This is Mental Health Awareness Week in 2021. Sometimes they don't have to be physical challenges that the world is putting on us, but our inner challenges are where we're trying to battle and we're trying to find our place of where things are in life, whether it's balancing career, life, and kids. Probably my hardest time where I battled with what my position was in life was probably in my 30s. Looking back and now looking into having things settle down, it's a way of life and growth. We learn from our hard times. We stretch and we look forward to being at peace with it.
The final question is, of everything that you've achieved and accomplished, how much of it would you say is due to luck, and how much is due to hard work?
Hard work is so important. Being open to rejection, picking up the phone and cold calling, knowing that 100 people are going to say no and maybe one will say yes, and putting yourself out there is all hard work. There's luck as well. It's a bit of both. The only thing we can control is hard work. We cannot control luck, so we’ve got to do what we can do on our part and hope for the best.
That's so true. For sure, putting yourself out there like you did. That falls under the hard work category. You wouldn't be where you are if you hadn't done that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Finally, how can people get in touch with you if they would like to do that?
You can get in touch with me on my Instagram page.
Fantastic Instagram page, by the way.
Thank you. It's a work in progress. I don't know how you do it, but I'm learning so much about it. My website is VancouverEyeDr.ca.
I have visited your website multiple times and I love the content on there. You talk about PRP and some of the stuff as well. If anybody's looking for some information. Reach out on Instagram. I find these days the easiest way to get in touch with people.
It’s a little bit more casual.
Thank you again, Dr. Madan. Thank you so much for being on the show. I truly appreciate all your insights and all the advice that you've shared. Thank you to everybody who's here. Don't forget to hit subscribe, like, leave a comment and a review. We will be back with another episode.
Important Links
Dr. Richard Maharaj – Past Episode
Instagram – Dr. Mahnia Madan
About Dr. Mahnia Madan
Dr. Mahnia Madan is the Vice President of the BC Doctors of Optometry, a Fellow of the American Academy of Optometry, and she is blazing a new path in the world of dry eye treatment.