In this episode, I had the pleasure of chatting with Dr. Darryl Glover and Dr. Adam Ramsey about the death of George Floyd, their experiences with injustice as black men in America, and how they are working on changing the conversation in the eyecare industry with Black Eyecare Perspective. You can also watch the full video from this podcast at YouTube.com/HarbirSianOD
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Black Eyecare Perspective With Dr. Darryl Glover and Dr. Adam Ramsey
This is a special episode. I have two good friends and colleagues here with me. Of course, everybody is aware of the tragedy and other events that have ensued since then. We are also aware that this is not a one-time thing or a new occurrence. I want to spend this time chatting with my friends, Dr. Darryl Glover and Dr. Adam Ramsey, both business owners, Optometrists, and Founders of the Black EyeCare Perspective. Thank you guys for joining me on the show.
Thank you for having us.
It's obvious that this is not a new occurrence. People of color have experienced these types of events in some shape or form throughout their whole lives. I want to start with the present and then go back and have you guys share some more information as we go backward. Can you share some of your feelings, what you've been experiencing, and some of the conversations that you've been having?
It's been the same because what we've experienced right now is what I've experienced my entire life. This is nothing that's new. We're in a time where we had COVID-19 run through the entire world. It's put a lot of people at rest at home and a lot of people not working. What do people have? Time on their hands. They now have time to process the things that have been happening in a Black community for who knows how long.
For me, it hasn't changed anything at all. It's been the same. It's just another person that's Black that has been murdered for no reason. That's what I've been going through. I’m moving on with my day-to-day basis but I’m also trying to educate people about the company and the mission that Dr. Adam Ramsey and I started with Black EyeCare Perspective.
Black EyeCare Perspective didn't come to birth after we saw this tragedy with George Floyd. This is something that we've been preaching for the last few years. We wanted to come together as eye care professionals and make a difference in our community to educate folks about what's going on in the healthcare system when it comes to Black EyeCare professionals. Nothing has changed. It’s just the day-to-day activities or life that, as Black people, experience. Ramsey, what are your thoughts?
When I watched that George Floyd video, I watched a modern-day lynching. I watched a man put his knee on somebody's neck on the concrete and have his hands in his pockets and smirk. We watched nothing but murder. That was so clear and transparent that there isn't another way to come across differently while watching that video.
A lot of the other times when we've seen situations like this happen, everybody's written it off, “What did he do to deserve it?” “What happened before that?” When you see a man that's subdued, handcuffed, bellied down on the ground, and cannot move in this modern-day lynched, and a man put his hands in his pocket, looked directly into the camera and smirked as he pushed into the ground. If that doesn't get you to realize what is going on in America, I don't know what it is.
When you see the protests and the upheaval that is going on in the community, people are like, “Why don't you protest peacefully?” Black people have been trying to protest peacefully for years and you tell us that we can't protest during the NFL, in the schools, churches, streets, and anywhere. What do you want us to do? We protest peacefully. No matter what, what they want to say is, “Be quiet. Shut up and dribble. Shut up and sing. Shut up and dance. Entertain me.”
That's what we feel and that's what we get day in and day out. You have the perfect storm of people being unemployed, pissed off and then seeing a modern-day lynching, which is what we have now and we are witnessing it now. I am sad about my brother Floyd passing away. If his death can be the turning point for how America and the world see how Black people are treated around the globe, then his death will not be in vain. There have been numerous people that have died previously and, for us, they've died in vain because nobody has been held accountable.
What most Black people are upset about is if the roles are reversed, men would have been in jail immediately. There have been numerous instances where Black police officers killed White people and none of them have gotten off. All those Black police officers have been convicted and went to jail. Black in America celebrate that they have been arrested but we can't stop protesting because most of the people that get arrested get off. The arrest does nothing because when they turn themselves in, they already have figured out the bail. They're in and out in 2 or 3 hours.
They take the picture, stand in front, and are out the door. There is no harm. There are no issues for most of them. Most of them get to get their pensions, get their retirements, get fired, go retire, and go on the beach. That's not the situation that they've experienced. We are here. We want a voice and give a voice to the voiceless. We're going to continue to push forward and we're going to continue to be that voice in the community until everybody understands what we've been talking about for years. We didn't come to some agreement like, “That's wrong, this is right, and we need to move forward.”
Nothing has changed. What we need to see are convictions and more action. It's cool for everyone to come on and create awareness, Blackout Tuesday, Shop All Black, this, that, and the third. We need to see action, more diversity, more inclusion, and less biases taking place that’s in a Black community in different businesses. We need to see more, and that's not what we're seeing.
When we look at this entire situation, we've seen this play out over and over. We want to see a new ending to this story. We don't want to see that ending of a Black man, Black woman, or Black child die and have no conviction. We want to see a conviction and then we also want to see things change inside of all house homes, whether it's White, Brown, purple, green, or yellow. We also want to see a change in the work setting. That's what we want to see. We don't want to see the same story continue to play out because we're past that. We need to do better as people and as a profession as well.
We will need to touch on that a little bit more as far as what needs to be done, what you guys can suggest and if you can give some call to action for those people who do want to be part of that change. You mentioned a few times and we noticed already that this is not the first time. There have been many unfortunate deaths, unnecessary deaths, and then no convictions following. Does this feel different in any way to you guys from conversations that you've had with friends and family within the community?
I don't think it feels different for us as Black people in America. It feels different to the non-Black people because this is the first time I have seen police officers kneel. This is the first time I've seen police officers come out and say, “That was wrong.” Most times, that Blue brotherhood sticks together no matter what. They are quiet. They don't snitch on each other yet. They asked the community to always snitch. They usually stick tightly together. That was so clearly wrong that they even had to come out and say, “I can't even stick up for the guy.”
Fighting Racism: Today has been the first time that non-minorities and non-black people sympathize with the struggles of people of color. Usually, they just stay out of it.
I see the perception and the realization of what is happening here seem to be different. For us, we've seen numerous times. Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland, all those to us were wrong. All that to us was clear cut. Black and White to say, “That was wrong. He should go to jail.” This is the first time I have seen non-minorities, non-Black people say, “I'm on your side on this one.” The people that usually try to stay out of it say, “I'm going to stay out of it. It's not my thing. It's not my problem.” Those people now are sticking up and saying, “Even though it's not my problem, that was so wrong and I'm going to stand with you because we can't let that happen anymore,” which is the difference here.
I'm not going to be the Negative Nancy and wish that this is not going to be different. This is a turning point and going to be the change that we've all waited for. In the future, we're going to see some progress and we're going to see some change, but we're going to keep our foot down to the pedal until we get to the end goal. If you get to the end and they can't convict it, and then he just loses his job and gets 40 hours of probation, then that's not necessarily what we're talking about by being held accountable.
In this instance that happened, there was one man with his knee there but there were three other police officers that could have said something. There were people screaming in the background saying, “You're killing him.” This man stood up there and cried off his mother that was already dead. He knew where he was going. The second he said mama, he's crying out for somebody that's dead, so he's not looking for a person on the sidelines. He's saying, “Mama, I'm coming to see you.” We knew he was dying. He knew he was dying at that moment.
We want to see the people around them say, “Even if you would never have done that, you stood by and allowed somebody else.” Until people in power and authority realize that you cannot stand by and your silence is saying something and going along with it, you can no longer say, “I didn't do it. I didn't say that. I didn't commit that crime,” and think that's okay. If you weren’t involved, weren't around, and didn't say something, to us, you are agreeing with them.
That's an important thing to know. You're absolutely right that a lot of people are talking about how it's different this time. It's important to know that within the community, it doesn't feel a lot different because it's the nth time that this has happened now. Going back in time, you guys shared some video of yourselves and a bunch of 8 or 10 different other doctors about your personal experiences over the years. I thought that was powerful and it was amazing. I encourage anybody who is able to please watch it, whether it's on YouTube or Instagram or wherever.
It was eye-opening for me to hear because, to me, you guys are my friends. I talk to you guys regularly. I talk to other friends in the Black community regularly and you don't see that. I talk to them as a normal person but you don't realize that at the same time, that person is compartmentalizing these previous events throughout their lifetime. I was wondering if you guys would be able to share some of those with me and our audience here to hopefully help them get a bit of a grasp on what kinds of things you've dealt with throughout your lives and others have as well.
We put together that video because we wanted people to understand that just because we’re doctors does not mean we're exempt from the things that have taken place that you've seen online or on TV. Being a Black man in America, my entire life, I've dealt and faced racism. At an early age, my father had to have that conversation with me about racism. He had to sit down with me and tell me what it was about and tell me, “Be on the lookout for this, understand that, and realize that you, unfortunately, don't have the same playing field as other people out there in the world. You’re going to have to work ten times harder. When you go to work, you got to make sure you look well-presented top to bottom. When you go to work, you got to work ten times harder than that person next to you.”
With that video, what we wanted to show was our personal stories and our personal experiences. For me, I've been called out of my name from the N-word to blacky to boy, or whatever you want to call it. Whatever you can think of, I've been called. It's not because I'm doing something wrong. It's because we do live in a world that is full of racism, unfortunately.
I've had times, where I've been in the clinic and patients, have seen my name on the door, my credentials, and my reviews. They've come in and they're like, “That Black guy, is he the doctor? I don't want to see him. I want to see a White doctor. Is there someone else that I can see?” Do I sit here and shed a tear? No, because going back to the top of this question, my father prepared me for that because I knew what I was getting into coming into this life. That's an example there.
I'll give you an example that happened, which hurt me. I'm in a new community. There are tons of building construction going around me. I'm out here helping one of my best friends take some boxes to the car. Right across the street from me, there's new construction. This Caucasian guy walks into that construction with his dog. I can't do that at all because the last Black guy that did that got killed. He got hunted when he left from walking through someone's construction site.
Certain things like that, we can't do, simply because if we do that, we may get shot and killed. This is something that took place. This is right across where I live, where people can just walk into construction and do what they want. How many people as a kid always went into a place where they were building something to see what it was like?
Even our neighbors right beside us said, “When they were building our home, they came here to see what our design was like.” They came and saw and said, “That's a fabulous house that you guys are putting together.” If I do that, what's going to happen? My life may be at risk. There are certain things I can't do.
I gave you an example of things that I can't do, but I also gave that example of someone not seeing me to put the full picture together in regards to life as a black man in America. I could go on for days, but I'm not going to sit here and bore us with these stories because we've had that video that's out. I want you guys to watch that so you can see the emotion and the feeling that's in the multiple videos because there are multiple colleagues that have stated what they've experienced. They're all strong videos and they're all passionate about what they were putting into that content, and they’re telling the truth. You guys got to watch those videos to understand what we're talking about.
Where can everyone watch that?
You can go to BlackEyeCarePerspective.com. You can hit up the website or you can go to social media. I’ve also blasted it all across Defocus Media and my personal Instagram, @DrDarrylGlover. Dr. Ramsey is doing the same as well.
That is a terrible story to hear from what you're experiencing, but so common to what I experienced. I have a little bit different of a take because I was born in Trinidad. I was born in the Caribbean, where 99% of the people are minorities, so Black or Indian. I didn't come face-to-face with me being a Black person and that being an issue until I moved to the United States. We didn't have a discussion about race if everybody you see is Black. It isn't a thing.
That wasn't part of the stuff we talked about in my day-to-day upbringing until I come to the United States and we moved into neighborhoods where we were the first Black people in those neighborhoods. You move in and everybody is looking around like, “There goes the neighborhood.” It turned over from an all-White neighborhood. We moved in, and within five years, it was 50% minority in that neighborhood.
I didn't come to terms with race in America until I got a little bit older. It wasn't something that I had to face or understand. I went to a predominantly White school in Florida. When you get there, you see how they come out there with the horses when you're out like, “Go home,” and push you along with the horses. They never did that to the White community at my school. It was socially okay and we understood that when we left this party, there were going to be guys on horses outside.
I've seen my friends get kicked in the face by a horse. He was standing up and didn't see the horse coming behind him. He's talking, then all of a sudden, he turns around and the guy is like, “I told you to leave.” He hit the horse and he made the horse kick him in the face. There are countless incidences that I have seen and have been a part of that I'm like, “That would have never happened and allowed. They would have never thought that was okay.”
You have to think that a person is less than to treat them like that. You can't think that we're on the same level when you treat people like that. There have been too many instances that I've experienced me thinking, “Now that I'm a doctor, this is going to be different.” Now I got my white coat and I’m here. What people don't realize is that when I leave my office, I am still 6’3”, 275-pound Black man that some people find threatening. Some people find me to be afraid of for no reason because anybody who knows me knows I'm the most joking around person that you will ever meet. I'll probably buy you more drinks than anybody can. The next day, I probably regret it on my credit card. That's not me.
Fighting Racism: If you actually have more diversity, you can increase your profit to that nature by 33%.
When people see you right away, they have a threatening demeanor and they feel scared of you for no reason. I have not done anything to deserve that. I have not done anything to warrant that from you. We walk around constantly, having to think about how threatening I am to a person. When I get pulled over, I usually try to have my license registration and insurance already out before the cop comes because I don't want to reach for anything when he’s there.
Some people say they wait and then ask the cop to go in the glove compartment. I don't do that. I purposely have it all out, so by the time he comes, I have it out the window. Even in that instance, I've had situations where I have license registration and insurance and the police officer asked me, “Do you have any warrants before I run it?” I have been speeding 5 to 10 miles an hour over the speed limit or maybe run a stop sign. Whatever the reason is, valid. I'm wrong for whatever I did. Fair enough.
To ask me if I have warrants, does that have anything to do with a broken taillight? I'm not trying to understand. Did you pull me over for the taillights or did you pull me over to think, “Black people have warrants, so let me pull them over for that reason?” That's the experience that we feel as black people that not all minorities feel. That's the key thing I want to get across.
Some people like to say, “We have diversity because we have all these minorities. We’re doing this.” The experiences of Indian people, Asians, and Hispanics are totally different. How people feel as being Jewish or if anything, they say, “We're a minority, too. We're Irish. We're Jewish. We're this.” “I understand. I'm not saying you're not.” You don't feel what we feel. You don't think how we feel, so stop trying to clump your situations and your life experiences together because when you get pulled over, they don't ask you if you have warrants. When other people get pulled over, they can say, “Let me get your badge number.” We don't do that. We can't say that. That is not the conversation we have with the police.
To give you a thought, I saw that George Zimmerman got arrested in Atlanta for DUI. If Black people were as mean as people say they are, George Zimmerman would not be alive right now. The fact that he is alive to do DUIs should let you know how peaceful Black people have been. We were not going over there. We're not even doing that. That's not how we operate. We need more people to understand, “That's not us. That's not how it is. Please try to get to understand our situation and help us fix it. Help us say, ‘Enough is enough.’”
Until the people in power or the majority decide to make a change, the minority can't make a change to what the majority does not decide to do. You have to be empowered to give a voice to the voiceless. The voiceless cannot make their own voice. Only the people in power can determine and say, “We're going to change laws and rules.” If you are in charge of all the laws and rules, unless you decide to be different, we have nowhere to go. We have nothing that we can do. What we're speaking up for and what we're doing now is trying to say, “We're here and we want to be that voice for the eye care community.”
I wanted to switch the conversation a little bit to Black EyeCare Perspective, what the mission is, and what you guys are hoping to accomplish with the organization.
I want to give my personal opinion about how this came about. Of course, it was Adam and I coming to the table and wanting to make an impact in regards to the eye care industry because we saw that there were some things that needed to be changed. With Black EyeCare Perspective, I liked the concept of what Adam Ramsey and I came up with in regards to creating authentic dialogue. We want to create authentic dialogue about implicit bias. We want to talk about organizational structure and diversity. Exclusion has taken place.
In regards to treating this, we have a three-prong approach. Number one, we want to increase the number of leaders of Blacks addressing the biases in the eye care industry. Number two, we want to help eye care professionals and companies stay effective and relevant in a forever-changing landscape. Also, help them align their values based on equity and inclusion in a forever-changing landscape in eye care. Lastly, we want to make sure that we facilitate better dialogue between non-minority eye care professionals and minorities in certain demographics.
There's a lot of people that practice down South in Alabama, where a lot of their population of patients are Black, but those doctors don't know how to communicate. They don't know what systemic conditions to look for. They don't have the products in their offices. We want to be able to educate and coach them in regards to how to educate and treat that patient truly. That last part is important because, at the end of the day, Adam and I want to make sure that we are making the healthcare place better and we also making the eye care industry better.
In order to do that, we have to have better diversity, have to do a way with biases, and definitely have to have more leadership in regards to seeing Blacks in some of those seats. There's a statistic out there showing that if you have more diversity, you can increase your profit or something to that nature by 33%. There's research out there showing that you can increase your bottom line or have better success if you have more diversity in the workplace and more diversity in a corporate setting as well.
You said that started in 2018 when you guys got together?
Yes.
Where's that coming now? Do other doctors involved with this? What does that look like as far as the growth of Black EyeCare?
We have about 150 African-American doctors all around the globe. We have doctors in Africa, Europe, the Caribbean, Canada, and the US. Mainly in the US but we do have doctors all around. We have ophthalmologists, opticians, industry executives in the C-Suites, and also in our group. We're trying to have a well-rounded group to give the Black EyeCare Perspective. The name says it all. If you slow down and look at the name, we're trying to give what Black people’s perspective on eye care is? That's it.
We're coming out and saying, “We're Black. We do eye care. This is how we see the world, how the world sees us, how we can change and make that better? How can I make it better for my patients? How can I make the day-to-day life of the doctors and the staff also better when people understand what's going on?” We talk to one another, with one another and not at one another.
The hard part when any of these situations are coming about is that people do a lot of talking and not enough listening and saying, “I don't understand what's going on but I want to listen.” A lot of people come into it and say, “I know and I've been through this though.” They start with that before they even ask or try to find out what's going on in our situations.
The group is there. We've been growing steadily. We have a great group of docs that love patients and love patient care. We love the whole community. We love everybody, but we need a safe space because sometimes we can't be our authentic self and we can't necessarily have the conversations that we need to have when people don't understand what we've been through. We need to be able to let our guard down and have at least one place where we can say, “I get you. You are seen. You are heard. I understand what you're going through. Let's get through this together. Let's get through it even better.”
It's a wonderful group of doctors and executives all around the globe. We have a great time. This tragedy that's happened now puts us at the forefront for other people. It isn't at the forefront for African-Americans because they're already in our group. It's not just everybody else who is finding out about the group and asking our opinion about what's going on, but we've been working together trying to make the lives of other doctors better and allowing them to serve their communities even better by helping each other.
Even with our website, if you go there, you'll see we've had webinars where we discuss glaucoma, ocular esthetics, and things that are big in a Black community. Going back to those doctors that maybe not a minority doctors, they're able to go to these webinars, listen to these webinars, and pick up some tips that can help them communicate better with those patients of color in their practice as well.
We have that place where we talk amongst ourselves, but there's information out there to help the entire eye care industry. We welcome everyone because we want everyone to be on the same page. At the end of the day, we don't care what color you are. We don't care who you are. We want to make sure that every person gets eye care in the world. We want to make sure that they get the best eye care in the world.
The only way they're going to be able to do that is if we all set that there needs to be some diversity there. Black EyeCare Perspective is helping you, giving you the tools to at least be able to communicate with the black demographic and sell products to the black demographic that's going to help them. It ultimately helps your bottom line, increases your profit, and keeps patients held to your practice.
Increasing the bottom line should get any business owner’s interest. It's amazing how much you guys have grown in such a short period of time and the amount of good content and information that you've already compiled. I wanted to move on to what’s next? What do we do as a whole? How do we make the change that you've suggested that needs to happen for these types of things to not happen anymore and to get the convictions ultimately? Those other results that we need to see at the end to assume that we've had some kind of success.
I'll let Adam handle this conversation because I know he's passionate about giving it to what needs to be done, but I'm going to give my two cents before he jumps into it. People need to speak up. You can no longer sit on the sidelines. You have to get out on the court and you have to play. You have to show some action. You cannot just sit there and be a bystander.
If you're sitting there, you're watching me, and you're not saying anything, you're as bad as the person that's doing the guilty crime, doing something that's bias or increasing the lack of diversity that’s out there. For me, it's more of action, speaking up, doing what's right, and trying to learn more than anything.
You can do that by stepping out into the Black community, shaking hands, kissing the babies, and learning more about the culture. Treat us like you treat yourself, your family, your ethnicity, and everything else because we accept everyone. We welcome everyone into our practice with open arms. We don't care what color you are. We want you to be more proactive and more aggressive when it comes to accepting the Black community and the Black culture.
Fighting Racism: Black people make up 13% of the US population. Nevertheless, there are under 3% of optometrists in the US are African-Americans.
I want to tie this in a little bit more directly the eye care because this tragedy happened was not necessarily related to eye care. This is not an eye care issue. This is a Black people issue and there are Black people in eye care. This thing, conversation, and groundswell started from something that wasn't eye care. I want to tie it in and say, “There are things in eye care that we can do better at.”
Black people make up 13% of the US public relation yet under 3% of optometrists in the US are African-Americans. We got a 10% gap that we need to make up. When females in eye care were at 10% and it was 90% males, we had an actual plan. We went proactively and said, “We need more women in eye care,” and I 100% support that. We went from 10% to 70% women in eye care because they had an actionable plan that says, “We're going to make it appealing to women to get in here. We're going to be inclusive and we're going to do the things that make this profession attractive to women.”
We have 3% African-Americans in this profession and nobody raises the alarm to say, “That's a little bit low.” If we decide to say, “Let's have a plan,” they’ll say, “We don't need to plan for that. Let it happen as it should.” There are systemic reasons that minorities and African-Americans are not in this profession. A lot of African-Americans, if they don't even get to see an eye doctor until they're in college, they've never even experienced that profession and never thought about it. They weren't exposed to it. It's too late.
By the time you get there, if you have not started taking those Science courses, you can't catch up, you can't get in, and you can't apply. We want to see that there's going to be a specific plan. We want to ask you to reach out to us and say, “How can we help? How can we get more diversity in these optometry schools? Let's have an actionable plan to get it there.”
With that same 13%, I want to see 13% of the salesforce that come into my office doing that. I have salespeople coming into my office to sell me products that are supposed to be designed for African-Americans, yet there's no African-American leadership at the companies that are selling them. That makes no sense. I have a lot of times they come in and said, “We want to do something cool. We want to do something like hip hop. We want to do something like this,” but none of the people that make the decisions are minorities or African-Americans. That has to change.
We want to be able to see the executive teams, the leadership, CEOs, and the board executives of these companies. If they give opportunities to African-Americans to get in on those seats, they can realize that their company is going to be better off when you have those people at the table. We want to see more diversity in the students and in the marketing dollars. Thirteen percent of your marketing dollars to the Black community.
That's going to be a better company that you're going to have at the end when you realize that this part of the American culture that's being left out and been ignored before needs to get the attention. We want to see marketing dollars, more diversity in the executives, and more diversity in the speaker's bureau. When I go to some of these companies and they ask us to speak, be on the show or do a webinar, I say, “Bring an African-American that you guys have and have them interview me.”
They go back to their executive and say, “Out of the 1,000 people we have, we don't have a single one.” I'm like, “You’re telling me that you have 150 speakers and not one Black person you can bring to speak to the group of doctors here?” They're like, “Yeah, we don't. Nobody has ever asked me, so we didn't even realize.” “That lets me know that nobody is asking the right questions that it takes me in 2020 to ask you to bring a Black speaker to come speak to our doctors and VP, and you don't have a single one.” He’s like, “We'll get one for you by next year. We're going to put it together.”
That's what we need to be. It's okay to do a self-evaluation and say, “We can do better. We're going to do better and we're going to have an actionable plan.” We're going to give a clean slate and say, “This is where it is. We're letting you know that we're here, Black EyeCare Perspective is here and we want to help. We want to bring up the questions that have not been asked before.”
We want to have a self-evaluation and be able to say, “This is how we're going to do a better job and we're going to reach it.” At the end of the day, the company is going to be more profitable. The patients are going to be happier because they're going to be heard, the staff members are going to love the experience they get, and the eye care community is going to be better served with more well-rounded doctors in the profession.
Black EyeCare Perspective is here and we're here to stay. We're thankful for you having us on and giving us a platform to discuss these things. This is not an easy conversation to have. You reached out to us. We didn’t reach out to you. The fact that you reached out to us to say, “I want to talk about this and I want to face this head-on,” I commend you for that because I know everybody is not going to love the conversation we had. I know it's not going to be all roses, but you said, “I am willing to step out here and have the conversation.” I thank you for that because the conversation needs to be had and I want to have more conversations like this.
We're comfortable having conversations and I love talking about it until we don't need to talk about it. The day when we don't need to talk about it is a lovely day in America, where we can say, “This is no longer a conversation that needs to be had because we've done that.” I want to do a wrap-up video with you when the companies say, “We got a 13% now.” I want to give them a Dr. Ramsey seal of approval when they show me the 13%.
You should have a plaque or award that they can put up.
For anybody reading this, we don't have our little 13% placard. I want to see a company that has that. I would be surprised to find a company that has 13% of African-Americans in executive, leadership, and spending on marketing dollars. I would love to see that and I would give them my stamp of approval. I’d do a commercial for them. Show it to me and send it to my inbox.
Adam, the other thing is, at the minimum, it should be 13% but if you are practicing in a demographic where there is a higher Black population, then you need to see a higher percentage in that 13%. You want to make sure that your patients feel comfortable. You want to make sure that your patients are going to communicate to your team members and communicate that message to you so that you can provide the best overall eye care but also the best customer service at the end of the day. You got to remember, if a patient feels comfortable, they're going to tell you more and give you more information. It's going to be easier for you to prescribe for them on the medical aspect, but also on the retail aspect. Always keep that in mind as well.
Adam, you shared a lot of actionable insights for organizations, businesses, and schools across the board. I've had a handful of individuals. As I've been letting people know, we're going to have this conversation asking what individuals can do. Are there any suggestions that you can give at this time and calls to action for any individuals who want to help make things better and eventually reach that point where we don't have to have this conversation anymore?
When these situations happen, a lot of times, people want to throw money at a problem. This is not a money issue. This is not giving a $100 donation, it goes away and I get to sleep better at night kind of situation. This is a situation in which you're going to have to take some action steps in which I'm going to make a step to make it better. When I see something, I'm going to say something.
A lot of times, I can go into a room and be the only African-American in that room. When I walk in, you can hear a pin drop because the room and atmosphere changes. Sometimes the conversations that we’re having in that room shouldn't be had. We can be at the water cooler or at the bar and the conversations should not be in that direction. That's when you got to speak up.
We started this conversation by talking about the George Floyd incident. There's the guy with his knee on him and there are other three guys standing there. Sometimes, all you have to do is stand up and say, “That's not right. That's not cool. That's not acceptable for a conversation. That joke is not funny.” When you see somebody post something on social media, don't just slide over it because it's uncomfortable. Be the person that stands up and says, “That's not cool. That's not funny. Nobody thinks that's funny. If you think that's funny, nobody else does.”
That speaks more volumes when you can stand up and be the uncomfortable one to say, “That's not cool. I'm going to stand up to that conversation. I'm going to stand up to that joke that you think is so funny. I'm going to be a voice to the voiceless.” When you're in a room making the requests and talking to people and then having the conversation, the next time you see me at a conference, let's sit down and talk about life. I learn from everybody. I learn from you. I will sit down and have a conversation about how you grew up and what's going on because God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. We need to do more listening and less talking.
I want to learn from you and you can learn from me. We need to sit down and have peaceful, calm, and civil discussions about what's going on and what my experience is because I don't know the Canadian experience. My perspective and Darryl’s perspective are not the same either. Don't think you can have one conversation with a Black person and think you now know the totality of the Black experience in America. In the same way, I don't have one conversation with a White person then think that I have the whole experience of what it is to be White in America. I don’t.
It's about sitting down, having conversations, and being the voice in those rooms. When people make off-the-cuff remarks, say things that should not be said, and make jokes that should not be made a joke and light up, that you stand up and you're that voice. It's you saying, “Enough is enough. I'm going to stand up in the gap. I'm going to stand there for somebody else.” That's what needs to happen.
If you want to donate, there's a lot of places that you can donate funds to people that have been arrested, the protesters, and all that stuff. That is a great use of money, time, and funds. Keep this in mind, the next time something happens and somebody says something or somebody does something that's not right, what we want you to do is speak up and say something when something isn't right.
Any final words before we wrap up, guys?
Fighting Racism: If a patient feels comfortable, they will tell you more and give more information than you actually need.
The main thing is we're here to serve the industry and the people. We want to make eye care great. We want to increase diversity, see fewer biases, and make the industry the number one in healthcare. Make sure that you reach out to us if you have any questions. You can never make us feel uncomfortable because we've been living our entire lives uncomfortably. We're here to have this open dialogue. We want to have it.
Reach out to Black EyeCare Perspective at BlackEyeCarePerspective@Gmail.com. Hit us up on social media, @BlackEyeCarePerspective on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, you name it. We're on all these platforms. Ask the question and we'll contact you. We’ll have that conversation and we can set up some type of consult. We could change the game for you in your practice. Have that open dialogue, speak up for others, and let's do the thing.
Darryl has said enough for both of us. We're also on LinkedIn. Darryl is king in LinkedIn and I'm always trying to play catch up with him. Reach out to us and have a conversation. All eye care can be served by having more voices and more people at the table. When the table looks diverse and different, you're going to be able to affect and change. You're going to be able to reach so much more people because now you're going to have different perspectives on how to grow this profession.
Instead of trying to change the slice of the pie, let's try and make the pie bigger. Too often, I see companies trying to steal market share. “I have 12%, now I want 15%.” If the pie was bigger, you'll 12% will be more. Let's stop trying to do a market share and let's start trying to grow the pie. The pie will only be grown when people at the table sit down and say, “How can we change it? How can we grow up? How can we make it better? How can we make it bigger?”
Let's have some different trains of thought, have some different ideas, get creative and radical. Let's try and change it in a different way. Darryl and I definitely sound different than almost 99% of the people on the speaking circuit. We're going to be different. We're going to bring some different ideas to the table and we're excited. Thank you for giving us a platform and giving us the audience that you have to have the conversation with. Hopefully, the next time we're doing this conversation, we're doing it with a cigar and a Scotch because that's what I need after this is all over.
Thank you, guys, for taking the time to do this. I appreciate you guys sharing all your insights. It's helped me learn and I hope it helps everybody else who's reading learn a little bit more and get a bit more of an understanding. Also, see where they can take their first steps to impact and make some change. Thank you to everybody who is reading. I appreciate you all tuning in as always.
At the beginning or the end of one of my shows, I always ask to share it, take a screenshot, and post it up on your Instagram story or wherever. This is one that needs to be shared more than any other episodes that I've ever made because we all need to get together. We need to be unified and we need to spread the word and get some action out there. I hope you guys found a lot of value here. I hope you feel that it's worth sharing with your friends and family. Thank you, Dr. Glover and Dr. Ramsey. I appreciate you both. I look forward to talking to you soon.
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About Dr. Darryl Glover
Dr. Darryl Glover is an innovative optometrist, global speaker, key opinion leader, diversity champion, consultant, podcast host, and author. He has served the optometric community for twenty years and has held every position in the field including eyewear consultant, optometric technician, office manager, and optometrist.
He received his Bachelor of Arts in Psychology at North Carolina State University followed by his Bachelor of Science in Science and Doctorate of Optometry from Salus University (formerly known as the Pennsylvania College of Optometry). He is a COPE-approved speaker, Transitions Change Agent, and has worked with several elite brands within the optometric industry. Dr. Glover has also written several articles for multiple prestigious optical outlets and interviewed countless individuals in the optometric industry.
Dr. Glover sits on the Forbes Health Advisory Board, Essilor Future In Sight Advisory Committee, Essilor Think Tank, Versant Health Optometric Advisory Council, Zeiss Advisory OD, North Carolina PAC Director, North Carolina Optometric Society Diversity Committee, and North Carolina Ethics and Bylaws Committee.
Dr. Glover is an Optometrist with MyEyeDr., co-host of the #1 optometry podcast, and co-founder of Defocus Media (Defocus Media Podcast 170K+ downloads), Black Eyecare Perspective, and Eyefrica Media. Dr. Glover is passionate about optometry with special emphasis on doctor-patient interaction, increasing diversity, digital marketing, and innovation.
About Dr. Adam Ramsey
Adam Ramsey, O.D. is a Florida Board Certified Optometrist and owner of Socialite Vision in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. Dr. Ramsey also operates three satellite locations on Seminole Health Services Clinic in South Florida. His private practices highlight cutting edge technology, innovative eye care and optical services.
Born in Trinidad and raised in South Florida, Dr. Ramsey gleaned his passion for social and civil camaraderie during his formative years. His fondness for community-focused initiatives has made him a sought-after speaker and presenter for local and national health fairs and career symposiums. Professionally,
Dr. Ramsey is also a national recognized speaker and advisory board member for Bausch and Lomb, Zeiss, and Alcon along with numerous others. In 2019 Dr. Ramsey Headlined a community engagement series entitled “Dinner with The Doctor”.
Dr. Ramsey graduated from Optometry Southern College of Optometry in Memphis, TN in 2012. One year later, he opened Iconic Eye Care in Lake Park, FL, which he rebranded as Socialite Vision in 2016. Dr. Ramsey compiled the ebbs and flows of his experience as an optometrist into his 2020 debut work, Play Chess Not Checkers: The Practical Guide To Warm Start Your Dream Optometric Practice. In his book, Dr. Ramsey gives aspiring optometrists and entrepreneurs, alike, step-by-step guidelines for opening a successful practice, coupled with personal life lessons to endure and overcome the test and trials of new business ownership.
In his multi-location practice, Dr. Ramsey specializes in Myopia Control, Dry Eye Care and Advanced Contact Lens Fittings. He also serves as the Indian Health Services Director Of Optometric Services, providing professional eye care for underserved Native American communities. Dr. Ramsey is the Vice President of T. Leroy Jefferson Medical Society, and Chairman of the Board for the Palm Beach County Optometric Association. Some of his accolades include the 2018 Small Business of the Year Award from the Chamber of Commerce of Palm Beaches, and 2018 Business of the Year Award from Legacy Magazine.
Dr. Ramsey cites his belief in being fiercely independent as the driving motivation in his life and professional career. “I stand on the shoulders of giants, and consider it my duty to keep this legacy alive,” says Dr. Ramsey.